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Israel in Europe? March 11, 2007

Posted by Aella in Israel, Lebanon.
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It is totally  unacceptable in any shape, way or form that Israel is seen as a part of Europe. I known it for some time but how the hell is it possible? As I was surfing for holidays from Sweden to Southern Europe yesterday I found on www.vingresor.se that Israel is under the category of Europe! Why the hell is that?? And why is Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest and many other European events? Why isn’t Lebanon part of Europe then? Or Syria (aah how would you like that Bashar?) Or Palestine? Is it so the damn Europeans can say that oh yeah we do have Jews in Europe, n a lot of them as well (well since they managed to kill so many in the past). Or what?
Can anyone explain this to me? And you might wonder why the upset. Well I simple don’t want to be associated with such a murder state as a European or shall I say a Swede (nooot saying we have a non-violent past in Europe – but I do).
Like fuck, this has to change!

Comments»

1. yasmine - March 12, 2007

I agree with that. I don’t understand why Israel but not other countries around. Everybody know that Israel belong to the Asia part (well those who studied geografi in school at least) but Europe keep give credits to Israel and close eyes for everything Israel does. Always the descrimination of other nations and specially when it’s come to arabs and muslim countries. Sure Palestina is part of Israel, i mean share same area but no one think Palestina as European country. I understand why you are upset, i’m too. Sure it should change but who cares to make those changes…Europe and US will be always on Israel side and support Israel and descriminate and fight against arabs. But i dont give up hope for better changes…hope that people around will understand all that and make pressure on goverment at least.

I love your blogg by the way…so much of intresting reading. I read it all the time. Sorry for my English, i’m not that good so I hope you will understand. I could write in Swedish but i thought that you write in English so i should too.
Mubarak to the baby by the way.

2. Dos Centavos - March 12, 2007

Hmmm. C’mon, let’s be adult about the Israel-Palestine issue and not be too one-sided, which solves *no* problems.

To answer your question – Israel is rarely included in “Middle East” or more correctly, “Asia”, because its neighbours detest it so much that, putting Israel in the same group means that “meetings” always end up as “Israel Bashing”. After all, do you know of many elite (but apolotical!) atheletes having to fear for their lives whenever they compete on behalf of their nation, elsewhere? [Remember the Munich Olympics, for example.]

This was why Israel left the Asian Football Federation, for another perfect example!!!

It’s important to separate the Israel Government and its innocent civilians. Plus, it is also important to highlight that, just as Palestine has the right to exist, so does Israel. Israel fights back (often in ways I cannot agree with, as a neutral observer), because its neighbours blatantly want it to cease to exist. That’s not going to happen.

As long as the Middle East conflict remains unsolved, Israeli civilians are far “safer” having their country grouped with CIVILISED Europeans who don’t want to obliterate them from the face of the earth.

Cheers.

3. Bibs - March 12, 2007

So tell me Dos, if you have an obnoxious bully in your class, walks in and starts pushing people around, picking a seat he likes and by force takes that seat, and while he is sitting down keeps on kicking and punching people. I am sure you embrace him and welcome him and say ahhh but he has the right to exist in this class?
You see it is very easy to be on the other side and going all sentimental and giving rights to whoever you like to exist and not to exist.
As a Lebanese, who has witnessed too many atrocities committed by the Israelis against my people i tell you Israel is nothing but a nation that has a bunch of murderers for leaders, and why should i or anyone in the world care about Israel if they don’t care about me or my people?
And well talking about the Munich Olympics. You have to come for yourself and see the misery caused by these people, awww poor Israelis can’t compete in any competition in the name of their country without them having fear for their lives, well i hate to break the news to you but there are thousands of Palestinians who take a daily risk to go to work, and these people don’t have savings, if they don’t go to work they simply don’t eat.
Take a look at last summer, Israel shelled my country for 32 days, killed more than 1,200 people more than 40% of them are children. Pushed back the economy more than 10 years to the past, forcing many people to leave the country and that was in the name of freeing 2 soldiers which Olmert is admitting in the Winograd Commission that the soldiers had nothing to do with the war.
Israel and its innocent civilians, and to hell with Lebanon and Palestine and their terrorists for civilians right ? Well all “civilians” of Israel go with the compulsory military service so in my opinion there is no such thing as an innocent civilian.
It’s just a shame that there is Spielberg who cares enough for the Arab world to make something like Munich.
And yes, we Middle Easterns are sooo not CIVILIZED, why don’t Israel bugger off to a more civilized place and just leave us in peace…
Sorry for the long comment but aaaaaaah the anger hasn’t settled from the July war yet…
P.S. Sous, you rock!

4. Dos Centavos - March 12, 2007

Bibs – trust me, I know what being subjugated feels like. My country (Taiwan) was invaded numerous times in our modern history and we survived under brutal conditions – no less than what those in the Middle East experience – without fighting back with violence. Now, we’re a full-fledged democracy, if not a de jure sovereignty. An example to the barbarians of the world, perhaps. So, kindly do not tout the ‘…you don’t know what we go through’ nonsense.

People do understand. People do condemn the wrong-doers. But the problem is, the Middle East needs to STOP making itself as the victim all the time.

I mean, GIVE ME A BREAK!

You guys constantly go on and on about the injustices when you don’t even fight your own USELESS leaders, who are your fellow country-men/women.

Why?

It’s easier to blame everything on Israel, isn’t it?

So do. It’s your choice if you want to stay in the Dark Ages.

Really, it is. BUT STOP BLAMING OTHERS.

Look at your own institutions for heaven’s sake.

PS: As for the atheletes who fear for their lives – I was illustrating that at least the Israeli Government and civilians do not target elite athelets unlike their former “opponents” in the “Asia” Group. Which is again, to answer the Blog Owner’s question why Israel is usually grouped with the Europeans.

Regards.

5. Bibs - March 12, 2007

Dos,
I will not go into what is in Taiwan and how you’re a “de jure” sovereignty😉. And I will not go into a discussion of Taiwan’s history and the turbulences that went on simply because this is going way off topic, and i don’t really care. I don’t know what you have been through and i hope it wasn’t bad, and i hope you don’t go through any of that again.
But let me point out a few things on the fly because i don’t intend on turning this into a debate.
– You can’t really compare Lebanon to Taiwan.
– Nothing gives you the right to call my countrymen useless, no matter how much i disagree with a Lebanese, he/she is still more useful to me you or anyone in Israel.
– We believe that we should not shoot at our fellow countrymen/women because no matter how much we disagree, we still belong to the same nation with the same passport, so the fighting goes towards non-Lebanese and only in defending our land, sorry but only a barbaric would do that.
– We like our institutions just fine thank you.
– We believe that our land is ours, and it is sacred. We do not jubilate when a foreign army comes to our land (pun) and greet them as conquerors. We fight for our right and our land. You want to call that barbarism and dark ages, then yes we are so.

P.S. As for the athletes who fear their lives, the Israeli civilians and Government target EVERYBODY without any discrimination, athletes, men, women, children, you name it.
Try to be more informed on a subject and look deeply into the heart of the matter when you want to discuss it, and try to be objective before antagonizing people.
Kind Regards….

6. Saif - March 12, 2007

@Dos Centavos

You start off with asking us to no not be too one-sided in our approach, yet you somehow forget to follow your own advice.

I agree that we need to differentiate between the Israeli government and its people. And since Israeli participants face a lot of hatred in Arab sports/cultural events and competitions, I also agree that it is a good idea to invite them to participate in events organized in other regions/continents.

My beef is with your argument about Arab nations wanting Israel to “cease to exist”, and thus Israel being justified in “fighting back.” Fighting back?? Either you’re totally biased or completely unaware of the history of the conflict to say something like that. Leave aside the initial wars that led to the creation of Israel and the subsequent expansion of its territory, but just answer this – Would there really be any serious threat to “Israel’s existence” if it were not for its aggressive policies against innocent Arab people? Do you really think it’s all some kind of real-estate issue? Did the hundreds of civilians whose homes were destroyed, who were stripped of their dignity, and whose women and children were mistreated and killed by the Israeli forces pose any kind of threat to Israel and its existence? You can’t say that terrorist bombings take place in Israel because it’s neighbors want it to “cease to exist.” They’re there because people want atrocities committed by the Israeli State to stop. Nothing justifies their methods, but it’s how they’ve been “fighting back.”

So if we consider the lame justifications you’ve given for Israeli policies as a sensible argument, our next step should be to start supporting the suicide bombers.

Seriously, you start by talking about the need for a balanced approach and about solving problems, and then you go ahead and paint a picture in which the only civilians that exist are Israeli civlians, and call Arabs uncivilized!! Your “neutrality” impresses me.

7. DC - March 12, 2007

Wait a second people, I never justified Israel’s tactics!! I don’t condone violence on either side!!

I also said that I disagreed with Israel’s methods!!

I am just sayin that the “other side” isn’t the only victim/s.

Using Taiwan’s example is useful – because it shows how a non-violent approach can work. Plus, the Taiwanese never victimised ourselves.

A lot of the problems we see stem from people creating more problems for themselves by reacting in ways that do nothing to solve the problems, least of all, in garnering international support.

On a callous note, maybe you need to hire better public relations, people.

Land is just land. What’s more important is that people are afforded peace to do with what they have.

Stop fighting so much – and I do mean it on a psychological/spiritual level. Use the anger to do something constructive – like Taiwan did.

Was/is my point.

PS: Can’t be bothered re-reading what I wrote previously but Taiwan has de factor sovereignty, not de jure, of course. Semantics!

PPS: Truthfully, I couldn’t care less what happened to Israel per se. I just think that everyone, esp. civilians, deserve to live life peacefully and prosperously, no matter their creed/race.

Plus, I think all USELESS institutions/politicians should be condemned. Making excuses for them just because they’re your fellow countrymen/women is the STUPIDEST thing I’ve ever heard. No wonder you’re in deep xxxx. It’s delusion at its worst.

Man, your enemy is SO OBVIOUSLY not Israel. It’s within you and your own borders!!

Regards.

8. Saif - March 12, 2007

DC,

Regardless of your conjectures about us and our situation, I can assure you that most of the Palestinian/Lebanese/Muslim population is not concerned about Israeli land, or the destruction of the State of Israel. We are not against Jews or a Jewish state. We want peace more than anything else. What you might perceive as “fights on the psychological/spiritual level” are in fact attempts at sensitizing people towards our continued suffering, and pressurizing the Israelis to let us live in peace.

It never was, and it still isn’t a real-estate dispute for us. It’s about fighting for our rights and for our dignity. Would you classify Martin Luther Kings speeches against racism as “fights on the intellectual level” that didn’t really contribute towards solving the problem?

None of us is trying to justify the wrongs that people from our community have done. We’re just trying to highlight that the only solution to the problem is to pressurize the Israeli government into changing its anti-human policies in the Middle East.

Even if we manage to put an end to suicide bombings in Israel, (and believe me, most of us really really want that to happen) we know for sure that it won’t affect the Israeli forces in any way. They’ll take it as a sign of victory, and continue their aggression in order to “check the possibilites for any further attacks.” Their aggressive policies existed much before the terrorist strikes started. In fact, I wouldn’t be wrong if I said that the terrorist attacks were a direct result of Israel’s aggressive policies. If Israel ends its aggression, there will be no more terrorist strikes.

You’ve been quite judgemental about us and our opinions without bothering to understand them, or at the very least allowing us a chance to explain them. I understand you mean well, but please do some research on the issue before talking about it.

Thanks.🙂

9. Saif - March 12, 2007

*pressuring (not pressurizing :D)

10. Sous - March 14, 2007

Yasemine,

I totally agree with you, the world let’s Israel get away with whatever they want. It’s sickening.
You’re English is perfectly fine so don’t worry about that🙂. Thank you so much for you kind words🙂 . Hope spring has come to your part of Sweden.

Bibs, Dos and Saif🙂 haha well I think you all know what I think😛 in this question. I must add that it is easy to simplify the problems in the Middle East when you read what media in your country writes. Once there you look at it totaly different. I didn’t see how complex Lebanon is for exampel until I lived there.

11. emmanuel - March 24, 2007

i think it is better for israelis to be part and parcel of europe.Reason for my decision is due to the frequent war in the middle east which usually involve dispute with israel.As we all know israel will make a good match with europeans and the USA than with any nation in asia

12. Sous - March 25, 2007

I wonder on what you base that Israelis are a good match for us Europeans. Does that mean I’m a bloodythirsty occupier as well?

13. kalthoum - April 5, 2007

Bonjour,
Je suis marocaine, je vis en France depuis 15 ans. Le peuple français est en majeure partie pro-palestinien et meme parfois antisémite. Bien que je n’adhére pas à l’antisémitisme, je suis pour une république laique de palestine sur tout le territoire et qui inclurait toutes les confessions, comme une partie de la population française. Il faut croire que vivre en France a necessairement une influence sur les idées de ses immigrés.

14. sameer - January 30, 2008

2 me it makes sense— think carefully—-most modern israelis r composed of jews whose parents or grandparents migrated from the european continent—there is an european atmosphere in that country==most european cities r an average hr flight from israel—while there r oriental jews and afrikan ones, but mostly r from da askenazi (european) origin ones and da country derives many of its traditions and cultures from europe.

15. Sous - January 31, 2008

You know Sameer, I agree with you that it makes sense but I just doooon’t want to be associated with them in any kind of way. I know there are good people there as well but I really don’t want anything to do with anyone from that country.

16. sameer - February 1, 2008

sous—im a secular muslim of non-arab origin—believe me, i dont condone israel for its horrible treatment of palestinians— i know they have a racist and rigid leadership which uses violence indiscriminately against arabs—but they dont present much of israel—believe me, many arab govts. are as suppressive as israeli govt. in suppressing their own ppl—dont think for a minute that the govts. of egypt,saudi,yemen, morocco,algeria, palestine,sudan,syria, and libya are any angels—they have brutally supressed their own citizens in da name of islam, arab nationalism, unity etc
believe me, there r many israeli citizens who r sick of their govts policy against palestinians but r scared when they hear muslim clerics calling for destruction of israel as if all jews r criminals and deserve 2 die—partially, also, they dont want 2 be viewed as cowards or traitors by the more racist zionistic type israelis—i agree though, i wish this world could live in more peace with luv,brotherhood and tolerance.

17. RAUL DOSS - February 6, 2008

hello to everyone,great to you have you with me today.well if i were to put forward my own point of view about what is actually unfolding it self in the middle east,i will say it simply tells my heart to feel that entire human race is nothing but a bulk of hyprocate for the seperate chamabers of their hearts when they see kids,women and persons of third age die in the street.please let every human try to be alesat geniune and lets forget about this talk about divne law which for one reason or the other made belove friends and sister leave a life void of joy.
many thanks to all the wonder poelpe of our very rich planet.
raul doss
madrid SAPIN

18. puturarmsdownndontfightbacknwarswillend - May 17, 2009

well some people just have a tunnel vision
lebanon was given to the cristians to leave in a peaceful land so you muslims get out and leave us alone we are getting ataceked by the israels time after time beacause of you none cristians belivers and by the way lebanon is not the sacred land israel is its written on the bible and is also written in the koran get it right people and untill people in the arab world ackowledge that israel is the sacred land wars will never stop


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